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hi everyone, i am new to reefbuilders and have been enjoying reading the posts for a few days. I am looking for some help though. I have just finished plumbing my new system together. I have a 150 gallon connected to a 55 in my basement. after all the plumbing is said and done I have a horrible gurgling sound in both my sump and my main display tank. Any help with this would be great!!

Welcome to RBNE.
How is the overflow set up in the tank? Is it reef ready? Do you know what style standpipe you have in there, is it a Durso standpipe?

__________________
(' )< David >( ')

"The world is headed for mutiny when all we want is unity" Scott Stapp, Creed

well i basically custom built the overflow. It is a horizontal overflow box connected to a 1" drain pipe inside the tank instead of through the back. it looks like a durso standpipe if you were to turn the 90 sideways into the side of the horizontal overflow.

I hope i am exsplaining this properly, I bought the tank used and it was drilled very funny in the bottom, i did some research and liked the idea of the calfo overflow so i built one and installed it, at the time i didn't realize how easy it was to drill my own holes in the aquarium. If i could go back i would have ordered a tank with no holes, and just drilled my own holes in desired locations.

In the sump i placed a T fitting and came up out of the water with a vent pipe, hoping the water would flow out the bottom and the air would be able to escape through the vent. Instead i have water blowing out of the vent pipe periotically, pretty violenty and a gurgling noise in the tank upstairs.

thanks for the reply, i hope this helps!!

Sounds like you're running a homemade siphon overflow. Also sounds like its set up "dangerously", and the likelihood of a flood is great. Can you post some pics of it?

__________________
(' )< David >( ')

"The world is headed for mutiny when all we want is unity" Scott Stapp, Creed

some pictures would help a lot..... I don't have a basement sump or am familiar with the Calfo overflow design either .... but some pictures would give us some insight as to what is going on

Hi and welcome. It does sound a bit like you have a partial siphon going on there. If you are getting periodic rushes and lapses, then it's like a siphon forming then breaking.

There's a bunch of things you could try so when you get a chance post a few pictures or a diagram and we can help out.

good luck

I have included pictures of a top view and a side view of the overflow and the piping, I have also done some more research and think i have discovered my problem, from what i have read a 1" pipe will only handle 400 to 500 gph without creating a siphon. to test this I throttled the flow back and like magic the overflow was near silent. People who use overflows like this either use up to 4 1" pipes connected to a manifold going down to there sump in 1 large line, usually 2" to 2 1/2 inch, or they drill the back of there tank to fit a large pipe. Like the one on glass-holes.com. So i think i have my answer but no solutions!! I have reduced the noise by adjusting a few things so it's at a tolerable noise level for now. The flow is making and breaking a siphon in the overflow box but is not relying on the siphon for flow. I can't see any danger with this set up as far as water on the floor, it is still relying on gravity to do the work, my only concern is how limmited i am with the 1" pipe.

thanks for all the help!! any other views on this would be greatly apreciated!!

Attached Images

	side view 001.jpg (114.2 KB, 10 views)
	side view 002.jpg (98.8 KB, 9 views)

Hi, what might help is a device like a Durso standpipe or some alternatives. My 30g has a gated overflow like yours and I also had gurgling issues.

Durso is set up like this:
Durso Standpipes Portal > Home

I didn't have enough room for the durso so to solve it I made something like this (This isn't ~exactly~ what I did, but the concept is very similar. I'll try to take some photos when i get a chance)
Hofer Gurgle Buster Construction

thanks very much for the links!!

I have seen the durso standpipe before but have never seen the other one. Do you think if i came into the bottom of the horizontal overflow with the durso standpipe design it would work o.k. I guess i don't see why it wouldn't. If i did this should i have to do anything special in the sump to prevent any gurgling?

I think the problem is partially that the tank isnt drilled, and something to do with the way the siphon U tube was constructed/installed. Are you doing anything to prevent oxygen bubbles from building in the U tube? Especially since the tube isnt clear to see whats going on inside. If you take a look manufactured U tube overflows you will see that the there is an overflow box on the inside of the tank and a second box on the outside.

I suspect your problem has to do with too much flow for the overflow design, and unless you make some changes to the design you will eventually have a major flood.

__________________
(' )< David >( ')

"The world is headed for mutiny when all we want is unity" Scott Stapp, Creed

The tank is drilled, it was drilled in the bottom in a position that made it very difficult to install a vertical overflow without losing about 8" of the left side of the tank. So i piped up from the drilled hole into the side of a horizontal overflow. this is very simmilar to drilling the back of the tank, I just did the piping inside the tank instead of through the back.

Alright I understand now. From the description it almost sounded like you werent using the drilled bulkhead due to the location. Is the top of the stand pipe open, or capped with a hole drilled in it? The way my standpipe is set up its capped with a hole drilled to the size of 1/4 inch airline, then a piece of 1/4 inch airline 3 or 4 inches long is inserted and adjusted until the gurgling stops.
If the doesnt work for you then you will likely have to slow down the flow.

__________________
(' )< David >( ')

"The world is headed for mutiny when all we want is unity" Scott Stapp, Creed

This one is from nano-reef.com (all credit for info is theirs accordingly)

It does a nice job of visually diagramming both a standard in-tank durso and an external (maybe similar to what you are trying?, as well as the stockman standpipe. I do something quite similar to the stockman standpipe, so I'll call mine that. Hope it all helps.

Nano-Reef.com Forums [Powered by Invision Power Board]

yes the top of the pipe is capped and drilled with a peice of air line, i think the noise i was getting was not from the pipe but the siphon created in the box from too much flow, thank you very much for your help and insight on this subject. I actually have this set up just like the link from nano-reef.com with a external durso standpipe. I have adjusted the flow rate and all is well.

My other concern is whether i am getting enough gph through my tank down to my sump. My tank is a 150g and my flow through this tank is about 500gph with the flow held back a bit. I was shooting for around 900 gph but the 1" pipe will not handle this without creating a self siphon. My tank is set up for just soft coral and a couple LPS, do you think this flow will suffice? If not what else could i do besides drilling another hole in the tank

I think the flow through is a bit high if I remeber correctly. Pretty sure you want to shoot for 2 - 3 times turnover for return pump flow. So about 300 - 450 gph.

__________________
(' )< David >( ')

"The world is headed for mutiny when all we want is unity" Scott Stapp, Creed

thank you very much for the advice!!!

it sounds like i should be o.k with what i have set up. i get a little confused when it comes to flow rate's, there is a lot of information on this subject on the internet....everyone seems to have a diffrent view on turn over rate. thanks again for all the help.

One thing you can try on your standpipe cap is to put a small valve on the airline. That way you can regulate it a bit. But I've found that I end up leaving mine wide open anyway.

On the turnover/flow thing, you are absolutely correct. Ask 5 different people and get 5 different answers. I think that as long as you have ~some~ water exchange each hour, you are taking advantage of your sump.

(I'm assuming it is or will eventually be a refugium) and in that case you probably don't want TOO much turnover through the fuge. But a slower rate that allows the fuge to process nutrients. So you might be all set as things are right now dialed back a little.

Did a little research last night on what the "experts" are recommending for sump turnover, and its in the 8 - 10x range. I'm not sure whether or not this also includes protien skimmer turnover or not though.

__________________
(' )< David >( ')

"The world is headed for mutiny when all we want is unity" Scott Stapp, Creed